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Credit Lines and Criminal Cases

Discussion in 'General Vegas Talk' started by GlenBaccarat79, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. GlenBaccarat79

    GlenBaccarat79
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    Some info. Interesting. But, bottom line it is criminal failing to repay your 'interest free loan'. BTW, I never grasp the concept of borrowing to gamble, yes I know it is yours in the bank, however, when you put it on deposit or cash at the tables, it is truly yours with no repayment or loan.

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    #1 Mar 16, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
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  2. Wallstreetnole

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    This is a good read. Litigation gets so expensive for both sides and essentially you are fighting an interest free non-collateralized loan. It can get hairy in a hurry.
     
  3. GlenBaccarat79

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    Google the subject and there are lots of reads posted.
     
  4. Malibugolfer

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    In the (very old) story referrenced I see that the guy who was first described ran up markers at 6 separate Vegas casinos, none of which were sister props to another.
    All distinctly stand alone entities. Looks like that was purposeful and somehow could be noticed of Central Credit could enquire more in depth.
    But at 100 new marker cases a week, the DA may just have a bit too much of a case load regardless.
    I imagine the casinos just do what Visa does and pass the losses on to the people who pay on time.
     
  5. GlenBaccarat79

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    I believe you are a bit wrong, most will prosecute. Although I have no statistics, I do remember reading as well as seeing a TV spot as to how they actually do on a regular basis incarcerate people over this. There are different factors involved as with any type of case. I would not rely on the DA saying it is a civil matter and not prosecuting but if you think that way, it's okay as well.
     
  6. GlenBaccarat79

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    Yes this story is from 2011 and covers a period of 2008 through 2010. I don't believe things have changed.

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    My friends run in with MGM over the $20k prosecution happened around 2010 as well I think. It took about 2 years for him to get to the prosecution mark for some reason, but it was very real and he had no other markers good or bad with any other casino. Hey, if you pay them your losses its no problem, just don't be fooled that the casinos cannot do anything.
     
  7. shifter

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    it really all depends on the property and your relationship with them.

    every property will give you more than the standard 30 days. but at 45 to 60 days, it becomes an issue.

    some will work with you and put you on a payment plan and let you pay them directly. others are sticklers and will give you an ultimatum and they absolutely will drop the markers.

    now once they drop the markers and they bounce, they have a choice of forwarding immediately to the DA or you can contact them and some will work with you at that point.

    but once it goes to the DA, there's 10% added right on the top for the DA fee. and at that point it's a criminal case and the casino no longer has any control over the account. you have to work with the DA. the DA will usually work with you on a 6-12 month payment plan depending on how much the balance is. but it will be for the full balance plus the added 10%. there is no settlement with the DA.

    if you can't/won't do that, then it goes to trial and you better have a very high priced lawyer. it will be minimum $50k in legal fees to go through trial for a top lawyer who specializes in these cases. the result can range from a complete acquittal to a severely limited repayment plan all the way to you receiving a felony conviction and serving extended prison time.

    one other note is that because it's a criminal case, BK7 won't help you. however, it's a generally understood practice that if you file BK7 before the case is sent to the DA, the DA will not take the case. but BK7 doesn't always protect you because depending on the judge who has your case, gambling debts can be a sticky point for proving that you didn't willfully run up the debt with no intent to pay. depending on the judge it can result anywhere between a full discharge and completely dismissing your BK. and then at that point, you're really screwed because after dismissal you can't refile for 6 months and the DA has your case and will take it at that point and there's no getting around it.

    this is all real information from real situations that I learned from friends who went through it and others who had friends who went through it.

    I think it's a crock of shit that the DA is basically the casinos' collection agency with the power to prosecute as a felony. a casino marker should be no different from any other unsecured loan where if you don't pay, they have limitations on what they can do to you.
     
  8. VEGASBJ

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    but it's always been like that, and if it wasn't, the casinos would not extend money as easily (or at all). When we all first sign up for marker applications, all of this is in the legal B.S. in the fine print. They basically scare you into paying on time. If it was basically an unsecured loan, the "marker" system probably wouldn't exist. All of the advantages are on the side of the player - take an unsecured loan out and win - great, no problem. take out a marker and lose - don't pay / get in line.
     
  9. shifter

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    sure it would.

    they would just actually have to do their due diligence and make sure you were good for the money.

    and it would be safer for everyone because people couldn't as easily get in over their heads.

    as it is now, once you establish yourself, you can get markers anywhere anytime without even a check on your bank account.
     
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  10. VEGASBJ

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    Yes, they would have to do more due diligence, but I am still not so sure that the marker system would be the same as the casinos have lost their leverage in collecting the markers. They also have something like a "first rights / first in line standing" now as well with the current system, and with an unsecured loan they would not necessarily be first in line. You could still go BK7, and they would then have to fight all other lien holders for what is available in the BK hearing.
     

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